INTERVIEWER: Mahmoud Mansi
“People tend to think that risk management only matters in the financial sector, but nothing could be further from the truth, it applies to everything. We all use risk management techniques every day, we just don’t think about it in those terms…”
Carol El Hawary
THE INTERVIEW
1- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: As a member of Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, how did this add benefit to you in your professional life?
Carol El Hawary: CIPD membership is hard to obtain and highly regarded in the UK. Because I haven’t had a conventional HR career, the main benefit I have gained from membership is that it tells people that I am professionally qualified in HR and have attained a certain level of capability and knowledge. I also find myself turning to the CIPD to find answers to questions or ideas on how to do something, because they have a huge repository of useful information and guidance. Just recently I found some information on how to conduct shortlisting effectively, which was useful for coaching a member of my team.
2- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: You attained you BA (Hons) English Language and Literature. Did this have any direct or indirect impact into making you a better HR person?
Carol El Hawary: I am a firm believer that any form of education has benefits, even if they are indirect. I did my degree in English Language and Literature by distance learning with the Open University, and what it proved to me is that amazing things can be achieved even when you also work full time.
3- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Currently you are working as the Head of Exam Resources in the British Council in Cairo, Egypt.Can you please tell us more about this job? And can you tell us how did your powerful background in human resources support you in this job?
Carol El Hawary: The British Council in Egypt administers around 120,000 exams a year, for over 100 UK assessment and professional bodies. These include the International GCSE and A Level, IELTS, professional exams and Aptis, the British Council’s English testing product. As you might imagine, we need many people to support us in administering these exams; for example venue supervisors and invigilators. I have overall responsibility for the recruitment, training and scheduling of the venue staff across all exams and all venues.
My extensive experience in recruitment, training and people management has been invaluable in this job. One of the challenges with venue staff is that the work is seasonal. It is essential that, despite this, the venue staff feel motivated and committed, because of the importance of what they do. Egyptian students frequently come top in the world in the IGCSE and IA, so I stress to the venue staff that without them, we simply couldn’t achieve this level of success. It’s important that they don’t see it as just a job, it’s vital to the young people who sit these exams that they are conducted professionally, because this is about their future. My HR background has really helped with this, as I have many tools in my toolbox that I have used successfully before.
4- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Can you please share with us one of the challenges you faced as a manager? And how did you overcome the situation?
Carol El Hawary: The greatest challenge of my working life has been continuing to work in a senior, high stress job while also trying to cope with a chronic health condition that caused constant pain. The greatest achievement is that I carried on with the job despite the constant pain and fatigue. I do look back now and wonder how I did it, and I think the answer is that work was extremely important to me for many reasons and I was determined that the illness simply would not beat me. I had some very dark times but I look back now and realise what an incredible achievement it was. This is what inspired the subject for my Masters dissertation. I realised that there were many, many people with chronic health conditions who managed to carry on working, and there must be ways for any organisation to support the employee and maintain productivity at the same time.
5- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: How does the British Council – your department in specific – support the students and employees to develop themselves?
Carol El Hawary: The British Council works closely with schools which use the British qualifications system to educate their students.
We also provide an extensive support system for anyone who wants to take the IELTS test as this is a key test for anyone who wants to continue their studies in a native English speaking country.
6- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Do you think exams in general are beneficial to employees? What are the benefits of exams from your personal perspective?
Carol El Hawary: Well I confess I am a bit of a qualification junkie as I have two first degrees, a Master’s degree, two professional qualifications and a professional accreditation. So obviously I’m going to say yes, exams in general are beneficial to employees. I know there is much debate over the benefit of exams and qualifications, but what I have found is that it says to an employer, or an educational establishment, that you have the ability to attain a certain educational level, including the commitment, dedication and hard work that are required to get the qualification. The highlight of my educational background was achieving my Master’s Degree in Human Resource Management. I did it while I was working full time for a bank, so I felt huge satisfaction when I passed with Merit. It has since opened many doors for me and enabled me to meet people I wouldn’t otherwise have met.
7- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: You also worked as a Risk Manager in the HR field. Can you please tell us more about the concept on risk management in the HR?
Carol El Hawary: People tend to think that risk management only matters in the financial sector, but nothing could be further from the truth, it applies to everything. We all use risk management techniques every day, we just don’t think about it in those terms. I like to use a ‘crossing the road’ analogy, especially in Cairo! We stand there and we use risk management principles to decide whether or not it’s safe to cross the road at that moment. I have to admit that I’ve had to reassess the level of risk since I moved to Cairo – if I hadn’t I’d never be able to cross the road!
When I worked as HR Risk Manager in a UK bank, the global value of the payroll was 4.5bn GBP annually. This means that there is a risk of fraud or errors that can result in huge losses for the bank. Also, HR holds an enormous amount of extremely sensitive personal data that needs to be protected. Can you imagine the implications if 100,000 employee bank account numbers and other details were released into the public domain? It’s a massive risk.
In my current role with the British Council, it is vital to manage the risk of confidential materials (exam papers, essentially) being leaked into the public domain. So we have many controls in place to prevent this happening. We also have to manage the risk of venue staff not showing up on the day of the exam – which would mean we may not be able to run the exam at all, which could potentially have a serious impact on the futures of the candidates involved. So we have contingency arrangements in place to ensure that if that happens, we can manage the situation. Another aspect of my role is to ensure that we have procedures in place to manage the risk of an emergency. The British Council can be responsible for the safety and security of around 800 candidates and venue staff during an exam session, so it is vital that we know how to handle any emergency.
An then during school exams, we are responsible for the safety and security of thousands of children, so it is important that we manage and assess the risks and ensure all the children are safe and protected at all times.
8- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: What is your advice to students, fresh graduates, and employees who seek to develop themselves further in their careers?
Carol El Hawary: Be micro ambitious. This is advice I heard from the comedian and musician Tim Minchin, and it is basically the story of my career. I have never had a dream, I have just taken advantage of opportunities that presented themselves along the way and focused on doing a great job of what I’m doing at that moment. Never stop learning, there are so many benefits. These days, with online learning, YouTube, MOOCs, smart phones…there are so many opportunities to learn new things, and you never know when it might come in useful.
9- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: You are also a writer. You have your own BLOG. What does writing add to a person’s personality?
Carol El Hawary: For me, it makes me look at everything differently. I only started writing creatively after I moved to Egypt in August 2015, and now I look at everything in so much more detail. I started writing because I wanted to share my experiences of moving to Egypt with my family and friends, and it has developed from there. It has also helped enormously with the stress of culture shock and being in an intercultural relationship, because writing it down puts it into perspective for me. It was writing that helped me start to build my life in Cairo – I joined a writer’s group and met people who have become close friends.
10- HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: From your own observation, what is the difference between unemployment in the UK and unemployment in Egypt?
Carol El Hawary: There are two perspectives. Firstly, unemployment in the UK is much lower than in Egypt which makes a big difference, obviously as it puts more pressure on the state in many different ways. Secondly, the UK’s welfare system makes it much easier to be unemployed in the UK (some would say too easy). What I see in Egypt is that people are much more prepared to undertake any kind of work to earn money, whereas in the UK, some people refuse to do some jobs because it’s easier to stay on unemployment benefits than earn minimum wage doing something you don’t want to do. What has happened as a result is that the UK has a high number of migrant workers from the European Union who are happy to do any kind of work, because they can’t get work in their own country, or it doesn’t pay enough to allow them to look after their families. It’s a controversial issue.